Reformed Christianity and Roman Catholic debate (Temporary Page)
Nick a Catholic suggested to devote a new page/thread on an on going discussion on the crucial difference between Christians and Catholics.
The conversation is here and here.
Anyone is invited to the debate, but please identify yourself before posting.
You may start posting in the comments section.
hi Nick,
I have no problem talking with you about these things, but as I have said, I don’t think you are rightly representing Roman Catholic Teachings as presented by Roman Decree. Thus, if you want to talk, it maybe best if you just stick with the official teachings of Rome. To make sure that is what happen, I think it makes sense for you to quote Trent or Vat 1 or 2.
For example maybe I will help you out by quoting Trent:
CANON XII.-If any one saith, that justifying faith is nothing else but confidence in the divine mercy which remits sins for Christ’s sake; or, that this confidence alone is that whereby we are justified; let him be anathema.
Rome rejects that salvation is by the work of Christ alone. As we have said, Rome holds to Grace+works done by the sinner=Justification. If you want to uphold the Teachings of Rome, you would have to defend that salvation is by grace and works done by the sinner.
If you think I have misunderstood Roman teaching, then please point it out from the Roman teaching itself, rather than your personal feeling of what Rome teach. You should understand well enough of Roman dogma that the infallibility only belongs to the Office of the Pope acting as the office and only with regards to defining doctrines and morals, but this dogma clearly rejects personal infallibility, as if you, the individual follower of Rome, have any right to define what Rome teach.
The other grounds I would like talk about is just the opposite, the depravity of the sinner before the just and holy judgment of God. The sinner is dead in sin, and needs God to raise the sinner from spiritual death by the giving of spiritual life by the Holy Spirit.
I would defend that “justifying faith is nothing else but confidence in the divine mercy which remits sins for Christ’s sake”. At this point, Rome did understand the Reformers rightly. The Reformers believe thus because that is the teaching of the Bible that justification by God of the sinner is based on nothing else than the work of Christ alone, and the very hope, joy, and peace with God of the Christian.
The last point is, what you claimed to have, but have gone back on by rejecting the work of Christ to save perfectly and compromising the work of Christ to save plus the work of man to save himself. The point of peace with God on the basis of the Redeemers work for that repentance sinner.
We can talk in terms of the 1st: Total Depravity, no personal preparation in the sate of sin justifies the sinner before God; 2. Christ alone, without works of man, as the basis of justification before God, 3. The result of Christ’s work to save–”peace with God”, or having “eternal life”.
How does that sound to you?
by the way, I am very busy, and I do not mean by this that I will be able to get back to you very fast, nor is this a call to battle or a fight. Rather, it is just stating the area I would like to talk about when we can get to it. You have been a pleasant person to talk with, and I enjoy the struggles place.
Peter Chen
January 21, 2010 at 12:22 am